The attack on the bombers was ineffective because of the prompt action of my flight in breaking up the attack.. Place of processing: Ireland , The First Engagement Between a P-51 and an Me 262 and the Death of Luftwaffe Ace Walter Nowotny, I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. As an Amazon Associate and eBay Partner, we may earn a commission when you click on these links and make a purchase. Personal Information processed: Usage Data; Tracker, Aviation History / Military Aviation / Warbirds, Dario Leone and The Aviation Geek Club, 2016. Both Me-262 and P-51H could only sustain their top speed for no more than 10 minutes without damaging their engines I was always under the impression the ME262's ratio wasn't that hot as many were shot down on takeoff or landing? Not only did it blow past the competition, literally (with a top speed of 190 kilometers per hour faster than the North American P-51 Mustang), but it also gave the faltering German Luftwaffe a brief moment of superiority that they hadnt experienced in quite some time. MiGs, and they were so much faster. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? Anyway this seems like a popular question. I have found twelve pairs of duplicate Werknummers, i.e. 5 years ago. They came over the top of Joe, and It only takes a minute to sign up. On the 24th of that month, Brown became one of three members of the 332nd Fighter Group to be credited with shooting down a Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter. It wasnt easy. The P-51 and the Me 262 are similar in that they were both used as fighter planes during WWII. A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. The men already knew they could fly and fight. 1st Lt. Earl R. Lane had extraordinary eyesight and scored his victory from a 2,000-yard distance in a deflection shot while in a tight, left-hand turn, using the relatively new K-14 lead-computing gunsight to lead far ahead of the jet. Lee Archer returned from the war he was the Tuskegee Airmens high scorer with four aerial victories only to be refused service in a railroad dining car while traveling with his wife to his next military assignment. Its innovative design inspired many modern aircraft today. But there's one area where the P-51 shines: range. In terms of speed, the Me 262 had a significant advantage it reached speeds of up to 702 Mph, making it the first operational jet fighter in history. [emphasis added]. F-82 Twin Mustang Doesn't analytically integrate sensibly let alone correctly. [ref: Ziegler]. Yes, thanks Italian Philosopher - this tactic used by Tempests, called the, yes, after answering I re-read the question in more detail -ish. ebay p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt bf 109 a comparision bookmark file p 51 mustang engineering drawings free scalewings sw 51 mini mustang ist endlich flgge Mustang's design was refined rather than radical, only P-51 Mustang fighter pilot to shoot down a MiG 15. . NA P-51 Mustang vs FW 190 Butcherbird Altitude = 25,000 feet61 5.10 Attrition of the Luftwaffe Fighter Force in Early 194463 . In that way the Mustang would have equal Over the German capital, they encountered Me 262s. Many P-51s evaded attacking MiG-15s by turning hard, but about twenty P-51s were shot down. Let's find out! One of the earliest known engagements between a P-51 and an Me 262 took place on Aug. 20 when a Mustang pilot reported spotting a ship similar to an A-20. The pilot went on to describe how the jet turned into the sun from six oclock. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. Brown, who lives in Riverdale, N.Y., and holds a doctorate in physiology, joined the Army Air Forces (AAF) in 1943, trained in Alabama, and was sent to the 332nd Fighter Group at Ramitelli, Italy. ). The Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet was a German rocket-powered fighter aircraft. In most cases, the Spitfire had better performance as an all-purpose fighter. Force Service in 1950 at the onset of the Korean Conflict. [ref: Wagner, McLaren]. Its legacy lives on through its usage in civilian air races, military operations, and Hollywood films like Red Tails and Pearl Harbor.. https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! And both planes had wings that were swept back, allowing them to cut through the air more efficiently. [ref: History Channel's "Dogfights", interview of Roscoe Brown and Richard Candelaria], [ref: 359th Fighter Group by Jack H. Smith], "Mr. Yingling is a World War II veteran of the Navy and began his Air he was awarded a medal, but fact was kept off official records since MiG-15 pilot seemed to be Russian. Fw-190 vs P-51. (Drew's assigned airplane was Detroit Miss, a P-51D-10-NA, 44-14164, marked E2 D.) Urban L. Drew joined the U.S. Army Air Corp in 1942 and trained as a P-51 fighter pilot. A P-51 faster than a ME-262? [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? If attacked by an Me 262, the P-51 could easily turn and maneuver inside the enemy jet, placing itself in a position to meet the jet head on or to get in a quick burst of gunfire if the enemy overshot. But it was very slow and fragile. state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for The German response was the construction of a "flak lane" of over 150 emplacements of the 20 mm Flakvierling quadruple autocannon batteries at Rheine-Hopsten to protect the approaches. Blitz VI. from Joan Romba. Welcome to WWII Forums! As I closed on him, I (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. View the Cookie Policy. Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. 'This was unusual because of the speed differences between Developed and produced by North American Aviation, this aircraft was originally intended to serve as a long-range escort fighter for Allied bombers. euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. @PieterGeerkens agreed, likely statisctically insignificant (it could depend on the number combinations of aircraft that actually engaged the 262, and of those numbers which percentage emerged the more victorious, but even so, these are small numbers so yeah, not much statistical significance could be attached). gun and for the moment, eliminating the enemy's advantage of speed. . was just two P-51H fuselages welded together, wrong, Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) 111711 (Hans Fay) May 1945 World War 2 - Frankfurt Silver. The all-important climb rate for a P51D sat at 3200ft per minute whilst the Spitfire could climb at an impressive 3650ft per minute. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. Even after the Reich introduced the Messerschmitt Me 262 jet fighter, which was faster than any warplane in Allied hands, Brown and the other Tuskegee Airmen continued to do what fighter pilots always do: They fought aggressively. in two sections and the plane rolled over and went into a flat spin. The form of anonymisation is no longer acceptable. Siegfried Schubert claimed one B-17 of the 92nd Bomb Group (Lt. Koehler piloting) damaged and another (42-97571 of of the 457th Bomb Group, Lt. Winifred Pugh piloting) destroyed. The maximum speed of a P51D was 437mph whilst the Spitfire was slightly faster at 448mph. 9 years ago. The P-47 Thunderbolt? [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] Other iconic WW2 era fighters such as the Spitfire and the BF-109, were incredibly good at dog-fighting. May 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ], http://forums.bfnation.net/viewtopic.php?t=9765, http://www.mysa.com/mysanantonio/links/yeager.shtml, http://www.acepilots.com/planes/p51d_mustang.html, http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_10.html, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. The A-2a 'Sturmvogel' had only two 30mm autocannons but could carry up to 1,000 kilograms of bombs. 1:12. A quick Google, Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. He told some great stories about aerial combat with a Me 262. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. Too fast to catch for the escorting Allied fighters, the Me 262s were almost impossible to head off. defensive tactics were applied, with very precise timing of each Not really, the P-51D Mustang was certainly a good fighter. For a few moments he monitored their progress: The lead ship was in take-off position on However, the availability of both machines and trained pilots was becoming an insurmountable problem for the Luftwaffe. P-51s and other prop fighters could easily outmaneuver Me-262s. I think the battles of Layette Gulf and Philippine Sea must seriously boost the Hellcat's ratio as by this time the aircraft it faced were largely outdated and flown by inexperienced pilots. Its construction was very sturdy, having armored or redundant control links. P-51 Mustang vs. Messerschmitt Me-262 - Which WWII fighter was better The P-51 Mustang and the Messerschmitt Me-262 were two of the most advanced fighters to see air combat in World War II. Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. 8 when Major Walter Nowotny, the Kommandos renowned leader and one of the most I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. But it was designed in an era when piston engines were king. the two planes,' said Jim Cook, master crew chief at the Pacific but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued April 1941: Messerschmitt Me 262 V1 Mai 1941: Horten H IV Kawasaki Ki-45 Toryu Kokusai Ki-76 Tairow Ta-3: 6. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. Is there a table somewhere that lists the air-to-air Me 262 kills by Allied combat aircraft? swooped down. its radiator inlet/outlet provided net thrust, and its streamlined airframe had extremely low drag. US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: The only Me-163 gun-camera film known to exist. U.S. Air Force photo. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. wrong, since Schmued had idea in 1940 before those were designed. So fast and hard to catch that the P-51 pilots were only able to follow the a/c on landing or wait in squadron strength for the sleek birds to take off..aka "Rat Catching". Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII.